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Re: 4_Re: to be or not to be a member (Infinide S)
Dear IS
I don't want the free talk and free discussion to be mortgaged up to the hilt in the name of modern tolerance or mutual comprehension. It would be crazy by my side!
:-)
Then, everything you(everybody) say(s) is welcome, as well as susceptible of critique.
Being deeply anti-religious doesn't assure anybody of that much in terms of freedom, mutual respect, positive evolution of communities.. But I am NOT deeply anti-religious for these reasons... I am not either anti-religious in any sense. As often stated in other threads, being in favor of laicity doesn't entail being against faith or religious social habits. On the contrary, laicity is the only available legal way to guarantee coexistence for ALL different religious forms and worships. To guarantee peace. Your assumption that violence is obviously justified by history and chemistry is simply echoing some violence theorists of western civilization, from Hobbes' "homo homini lupus" to XX century Hitler or Sorel commonplaces.
I invite you to re-consider your stance reading some non-violence contributions to the peace-making processes, starting for instance from Rene Girard's critique of violence, religion and scapegoat.
You're greek cypriot and so your resentfulness towardTurkey is quite obvious, as obviously should be possible a couple of steps beyond rancor.
You have mentioned Oscar Wilde as ideal supporter of your viewpoint and it surprised me 'cause he was a peaceful man who sung love and harmony as few others had been able.
Best,
FM
Il giorno 29/gen/2010, alle ore 12.22, <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com> <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> Dear FM,
>
> 1.as you know i'm deeply anti-religious, and my statement was to an extend directed against religious peolple who believe that it is God/Allah/Jehoveh
> who gives life, therefor only he can take it.
>
> 2. As far as the weak vs strong people, I could say that it is those who are against violence who are the weak. Human history is full of violence, even in
> today's "civilised" society. I think violence is part of evolution, it is part of all dynamic/changing systems and will remain until we reach a static system. Like
> mixing two chemicals together, you get some kind of reaction until you get the finished product.
>
> 3. When someone kidnaps your daughter, rapes her, and then sells her to an Arab as a sex slave, the we'll see whether you support the death penalty or not.
>
> 4. Some people might be helped through love and kindness, but a lot of bullies are way past beyond help and need to be delt with. This includes countries.
> In the case of Turkey, a suppossedly secular country, that is violating UN resolutions, that is occupying a foreign country, and treats ethnic minorities as second
> class citizens. then proportionate force would be that the EU also treats them as second class country.
>
> 5. Like Oscar Wilde said, I dont want to be a fucking weak person, a bloody hippy, someone who sees a poor person and feel guilty because I am wealthy.
> What I want is for there to be no poverty, for everyone to be wealthy. In the same sense, I wish that there was no violence. But since there is > violence, I dont think I should deal with it by saying "oh, your life is valuable, you are unique, we have no right to take your life away, instead we will tax the
> hard working people that you commited crimes against to keep you alive for ever in a prison". This is not what I want to say. I want to say "there is no god,
> therefor there is no afterlife, therefor there is no soul, therefor human life is not as valuable as we think, its overated. Its no more valuable than the life of a
> cow or a chicken, and it is certainly not more valuable than the planet earth that we are currently overpopulating and destroying"
>
> 6. Whatever I write in this list is no more than that. A series of words put together to make sentences. A discusion. Thoughts. And as far as I know the SI
> supported freedom of thought and discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: freemod-AT-free.fr
>> Subject: 4_Re: to be or not to be a member (Judge Dredd aka Jean Parr)
>> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:25:38 +0100
>> To: situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>
>>
>> Jean,
>>
>> as for the weakness matter, I don't know how relevant is this thread, anyway I want you to know that you misunderstood my answer to Infinide Sadness and probably due to my poor english.
>>
>> I just meant that to answer violence to violence, death to death, kills to kills, force to force... is not the answering manner of "strong" people... it is just an obvious sign of weakness. It is the weak answer to weak behaviors of weak minds. The strength consist in being able to break the loop of violence and reaction implicit in the mirror punishment.
>>
>> Moreover, it should not be surprising that I am opposing this "an eye for an eye" law, since I am a modernist (in my way of course, not a pure one). What I need to emphasize here and now is the obvious consideration that the Lex Talionis (tinyurl.com/6vhbcr) is a mental law, before being a fucking primitive way of remission numbered in the old testament, the new testament, the torah and the koran too. That's why JLB - aka IO Hermes - was happily jumping when reading this infinitely sad(ness) remark that brought us back to the three monotheisms stinky horizon.
>>
>> I mean my view doesn't allow to consider this mirror punishment mentality (tinyurl.com/yda5roh) as something fitting the SI list. The point in fact is not merely "to be or not to be" a member of european community (as written in the thread subject line), but "to be or not to be" (a member of) the SI list.
>>
>> Fuck records of the ancestral forms!
>>
>> Best,
>> Free Mod
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno 29/gen/2010, alle ore 08.31, JEAN PARR ha scritto:
>>
>>> Weakness? We dont. in the Fourth Reich want any weakness? Has history taught you nothing?
>>> When one glorious combatant falls he will instantly be replaced by another exactly the same. The new order, FM will be driven by an emotion free Spirit of the Beehive. Instinctual weakness will be rooted out and eliminated.
>>> We will make weakness a criminal offence
>>>
>>> Dredd
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 28/1/10, Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr>
>>>> Subject: 2_Re: to be or not to be a member
>>>> To: "Situationist" <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
>>>> Date: Thursday, 28 January, 2010, 11:24
>>>>
>>>> By use of proportionate weakness, if ever. I find
>>>> instinctual weakness in that...
>>>> a sort of revolutionaries in everyday dna cages.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno 28/gen/2010, alle ore 11.22, <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com>
>>>> <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com>
>>>> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By use of proportionate force. I find justice in that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:33:38 +0000
>>>>>> From: issostark-AT-yahoo.co.uk
>>>>>> Subject: RE: to be or not to be a member
>>>>>> To: situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK,
>>>>>> most deal with it but I'd like to know how you
>>>> take it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Wed, 27/1/10, infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com
>>>> <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com
>>>> <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: to be or not to be a member
>>>>>> To: "Situationist Mail List" <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 27 January, 2010, 21:46
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i give life. i can take it too
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:43:11 +0000
>>>>>>> From: issostark-AT-yahoo.co.uk
>>>>>>> Subject: to be or not to be a member
>>>>>>> To: situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Situation Nº1:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Three Europeans must evaluate the eligibility
>>>>>>> of the Turkish request for membership in the
>>>>>>> Community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is your stance on the Death Penalty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe
>>>> situationist" in the body of a message
>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>>>>>> signup.live.com/signup.aspx`969----
>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in
>>>> the body of a message
>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in
>>>> the body of a message
>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>>>>> signup.live.com/signup.aspx`969----
>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the
>>>> body of a message
>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body
>>>> of a message
>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----
>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a message
>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ----
>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a message
>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> signup.live.com/signup.aspx`969----
> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a message
> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>
>
----
Message sent by the Situationist list.
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a message
to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
I don't want the free talk and free discussion to be mortgaged up to the hilt in the name of modern tolerance or mutual comprehension. It would be crazy by my side!
:-)
Then, everything you(everybody) say(s) is welcome, as well as susceptible of critique.
Being deeply anti-religious doesn't assure anybody of that much in terms of freedom, mutual respect, positive evolution of communities.. But I am NOT deeply anti-religious for these reasons... I am not either anti-religious in any sense. As often stated in other threads, being in favor of laicity doesn't entail being against faith or religious social habits. On the contrary, laicity is the only available legal way to guarantee coexistence for ALL different religious forms and worships. To guarantee peace. Your assumption that violence is obviously justified by history and chemistry is simply echoing some violence theorists of western civilization, from Hobbes' "homo homini lupus" to XX century Hitler or Sorel commonplaces.
I invite you to re-consider your stance reading some non-violence contributions to the peace-making processes, starting for instance from Rene Girard's critique of violence, religion and scapegoat.
You're greek cypriot and so your resentfulness towardTurkey is quite obvious, as obviously should be possible a couple of steps beyond rancor.
You have mentioned Oscar Wilde as ideal supporter of your viewpoint and it surprised me 'cause he was a peaceful man who sung love and harmony as few others had been able.
Best,
FM
Il giorno 29/gen/2010, alle ore 12.22, <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com> <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com> ha scritto:
>
> Dear FM,
>
> 1.as you know i'm deeply anti-religious, and my statement was to an extend directed against religious peolple who believe that it is God/Allah/Jehoveh
> who gives life, therefor only he can take it.
>
> 2. As far as the weak vs strong people, I could say that it is those who are against violence who are the weak. Human history is full of violence, even in
> today's "civilised" society. I think violence is part of evolution, it is part of all dynamic/changing systems and will remain until we reach a static system. Like
> mixing two chemicals together, you get some kind of reaction until you get the finished product.
>
> 3. When someone kidnaps your daughter, rapes her, and then sells her to an Arab as a sex slave, the we'll see whether you support the death penalty or not.
>
> 4. Some people might be helped through love and kindness, but a lot of bullies are way past beyond help and need to be delt with. This includes countries.
> In the case of Turkey, a suppossedly secular country, that is violating UN resolutions, that is occupying a foreign country, and treats ethnic minorities as second
> class citizens. then proportionate force would be that the EU also treats them as second class country.
>
> 5. Like Oscar Wilde said, I dont want to be a fucking weak person, a bloody hippy, someone who sees a poor person and feel guilty because I am wealthy.
> What I want is for there to be no poverty, for everyone to be wealthy. In the same sense, I wish that there was no violence. But since there is > violence, I dont think I should deal with it by saying "oh, your life is valuable, you are unique, we have no right to take your life away, instead we will tax the
> hard working people that you commited crimes against to keep you alive for ever in a prison". This is not what I want to say. I want to say "there is no god,
> therefor there is no afterlife, therefor there is no soul, therefor human life is not as valuable as we think, its overated. Its no more valuable than the life of a
> cow or a chicken, and it is certainly not more valuable than the planet earth that we are currently overpopulating and destroying"
>
> 6. Whatever I write in this list is no more than that. A series of words put together to make sentences. A discusion. Thoughts. And as far as I know the SI
> supported freedom of thought and discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: freemod-AT-free.fr
>> Subject: 4_Re: to be or not to be a member (Judge Dredd aka Jean Parr)
>> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 11:25:38 +0100
>> To: situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>
>>
>> Jean,
>>
>> as for the weakness matter, I don't know how relevant is this thread, anyway I want you to know that you misunderstood my answer to Infinide Sadness and probably due to my poor english.
>>
>> I just meant that to answer violence to violence, death to death, kills to kills, force to force... is not the answering manner of "strong" people... it is just an obvious sign of weakness. It is the weak answer to weak behaviors of weak minds. The strength consist in being able to break the loop of violence and reaction implicit in the mirror punishment.
>>
>> Moreover, it should not be surprising that I am opposing this "an eye for an eye" law, since I am a modernist (in my way of course, not a pure one). What I need to emphasize here and now is the obvious consideration that the Lex Talionis (tinyurl.com/6vhbcr) is a mental law, before being a fucking primitive way of remission numbered in the old testament, the new testament, the torah and the koran too. That's why JLB - aka IO Hermes - was happily jumping when reading this infinitely sad(ness) remark that brought us back to the three monotheisms stinky horizon.
>>
>> I mean my view doesn't allow to consider this mirror punishment mentality (tinyurl.com/yda5roh) as something fitting the SI list. The point in fact is not merely "to be or not to be" a member of european community (as written in the thread subject line), but "to be or not to be" (a member of) the SI list.
>>
>> Fuck records of the ancestral forms!
>>
>> Best,
>> Free Mod
>>
>>
>>
>> Il giorno 29/gen/2010, alle ore 08.31, JEAN PARR ha scritto:
>>
>>> Weakness? We dont. in the Fourth Reich want any weakness? Has history taught you nothing?
>>> When one glorious combatant falls he will instantly be replaced by another exactly the same. The new order, FM will be driven by an emotion free Spirit of the Beehive. Instinctual weakness will be rooted out and eliminated.
>>> We will make weakness a criminal offence
>>>
>>> Dredd
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 28/1/10, Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr>
>>>> Subject: 2_Re: to be or not to be a member
>>>> To: "Situationist" <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
>>>> Date: Thursday, 28 January, 2010, 11:24
>>>>
>>>> By use of proportionate weakness, if ever. I find
>>>> instinctual weakness in that...
>>>> a sort of revolutionaries in everyday dna cages.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno 28/gen/2010, alle ore 11.22, <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com>
>>>> <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com>
>>>> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> By use of proportionate force. I find justice in that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:33:38 +0000
>>>>>> From: issostark-AT-yahoo.co.uk
>>>>>> Subject: RE: to be or not to be a member
>>>>>> To: situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK,
>>>>>> most deal with it but I'd like to know how you
>>>> take it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Wed, 27/1/10, infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com
>>>> <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com
>>>> <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: to be or not to be a member
>>>>>> To: "Situationist Mail List" <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 27 January, 2010, 21:46
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i give life. i can take it too
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:43:11 +0000
>>>>>>> From: issostark-AT-yahoo.co.uk
>>>>>>> Subject: to be or not to be a member
>>>>>>> To: situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Situation Nº1:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Three Europeans must evaluate the eligibility
>>>>>>> of the Turkish request for membership in the
>>>>>>> Community.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In other words:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is your stance on the Death Penalty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe
>>>> situationist" in the body of a message
>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>>>>>> signup.live.com/signup.aspx`969----
>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in
>>>> the body of a message
>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in
>>>> the body of a message
>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
>>>>> signup.live.com/signup.aspx`969----
>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the
>>>> body of a message
>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body
>>>> of a message
>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ----
>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a message
>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ----
>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a message
>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
> signup.live.com/signup.aspx`969----
> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a message
> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
>
>
----
Message sent by the Situationist list.
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a message
to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
Previous message in thread | Next message in thread
Thread
to be or not to be a member / Mr Chill / 28 Jan 2010
RE: to be or not to be a member / <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com> / 28 Jan 2010
RE: to be or not to be a member / Laurie Colson <lauriecolson-AT-yahoo.com> / 28 Jan 2010
RE: to be or not to be a member / Mr Chill <issostark-AT-yahoo.co.uk> / 31 Jan 2010
RE: to be or not to be a member / Mr Chill <issostark-AT-yahoo.co.uk> / 28 Jan 2010
RE: to be or not to be a member / <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com> / 28 Jan 2010
2_Re: to be or not to be a member / Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> / 28 Jan 2010
Re: 2_Re: to be or not to be a member / JEAN PARR <jeanparr-AT-btinternet.com> / 29 Jan 2010
4_Re: to be or not to be a member (Judge Dredd aka Jean Parr) / Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> / 29 Jan 2010
RE: 4_Re: to be or not to be a member (Judge Dredd aka Jean Parr) / <infinidesadness-AT-hotmail.com> / 29 Jan 2010
• Re: 4_Re: to be or not to be a member (Infinide S) / Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> / 29 Jan 2010
Girard's theory of violence, religion and the scapegoat (Infinide S) / Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> / 29 Jan 2010
Re: 4_Re: to be or not to be a member (Infinide S) / Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com> / 01 Feb 2010
when someone kidnaps your daughter (Vikki, Infinide S) / Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> / 01 Feb 2010
Re: when someone kidnaps your daughter (Vikki, Infinide S) / Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com> / 02 Feb 2010
2_Re: when someone kidnaps your daughter (Vikki, Infinide S) / Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> / 02 Feb 2010
Re: 4_Re: to be or not to be a member (Judge Dredd aka Jean Parr) / JEAN PARR <jeanparr-AT-btinternet.com> / 29 Jan 2010
RE: to be or not to be a member / Mr Chill <issostark-AT-yahoo.co.uk> / 30 Jan 2010
6_Re: to be or not to be a member / Free Mod <freemod-AT-free.fr> / 01 Feb 2010
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