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Re: authentic music/appropriation/ integration for Christsake
Diana
Integrated? Are you serious? Do you really see integration as a virtue because I dont. Not for Whitey anyway.
I live in a place called Barry in South Wales, not the Baltimore of popular imagination. Sounds to me like your idea of integration is people who mall together or chat in the bookstore.
Barry people are integrated alright. They are a bunch of fucking rednecks with an open minded view of the world about one nanometer across.
Welcome to Noniggersville. You know this is a seabord and tightly knit in that all these fucking morons all know each other. But Marthas fucking Vineyard it aint.
What Im saying is that there is a downside to integration. You will find that integration is a specialism of poor people whch is what is happening here. You wont find any fucking Laura Ashley shit here. Plenty of fat bully girls though confident in their shared values of bad body image and anyone who doesnt come from here can go and fuck themselves.
These kind of people go abroad for their miserable dissipated drunken holidays and come back pleased with having fucked over some foreigners.
Barry should be transported to Nevada and fucking vitrified in a new test programme funded by the Welsh Assembly.
Thats what I think of integration. Im in a bad mood this morning. Nobody fuck with me.
--- On Tue, 30/6/09, Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com> wrote:
From: Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com>
Subject: Re: authentic music/appropriation
To: "Situationist" <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
Date: Tuesday, 30 June, 2009, 4:18 AM
Diana
What do you mean by integrated?
The melting pot idea?
Please clarify.
Vikki
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Diana Manister <dmanister-AT-hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> I can't believe any community is more integrated than the North Shore of
> Staten Island where I live, including the towns of New Brighton, West
> Brighton, Port Richmond, Tompkinsville and Stapleton. I'll put these up
> against any five towns anywhere on that score.
>
>
>
> Diana
>
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:16:29 +0930
> > Subject: Re: authentic music/appropriation
> > From: riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com
> > To: situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> >
> > On the website for where you live Chris it states that Pleasant Hill CA
> is
> > 68.5% white. It does list the other demographics in their pitiful
> numbers. I
> > notice their are no Indians or Afghanis on the list. Must make eating out
> > boring over there.
> > Where I live - hey I hate to be an ambassador but its a kind of utopia I
> > think. If I drive 2 hours east from town I'm in 99% blackfella land.
> Where
> > they call European people "pink" , how accurate.
> > My initial point was about non-aboriginal people foolishly playing an
> > aboriginal instrument and claiming they are a bona fide player.
> > Its all spiralled out of control by your ignorance about this whole
> subject.
> > Why can't you concede other people may know about this subject?
> > Your average Joe in Australia knows all this stuff about who can and
> can't
> > perform aboriginal culture.
> >
> > Vikki
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Christopher Gray <rasputin-AT-teleport.com
> >wrote:
> >
> > > And "whitey" isn't a racist term like "blackie" or "nigger"? It's a
> > > euphemism for "honkie".
> > > What's with the hate of any member of our one race, including "whitey".
> > >
> > > It may interest you to know that many "black" Polynesians (a
> geographical
> > > area) are "Caucasoid" (an anthropological "sub-race" term).
> > > Michael Jackson was near-"white" and was still considered "Negroid"
> > > (another anthropological"sub-race" term).
> > > U.S. government idiots labeled a "race" as a choice between elements of
> > > disparate sets, "Asian" (i.e., geographical set), "white" (a color that
> can
> > > be from most anywhere), "African-American" (some fuzzy combination of
> three
> > > continents), Native American (based on a period of time preceding the
> > > African, Asian, South American, and European immigrations), Vietnamese
> (a
> > > nation-state).
> > > The absurdity of classifications exposes that no one cares who you are
> just
> > > as long as an agenda based in quantification makes a usable object out
> of
> > > you, as if for some politicians' lie demographic....
> > >
> > > Most "pop" music doesn't come from this hated "whitey" anyway.
> > > Just read "Billboard" and the sales tallies for the last 35 years.
> > > Motown was as "pop" as it gets, just as is "elevator jazz" and is
> > > "hip-hop".
> > > I liked Motown and hated "boy bands".
> > > Am I "white", "black", or a demographic for both the Brill Building
> "hit"
> > > factory, payola of colorless capital and its post-leather "sweet
> nothings",
> > > or what?
> > >
> > > I worked as a DJ, in a record store (7 years), and played in several
> bands
> > > (from age 12-17).
> > > Musical history, from what I experienced and from what I learned from
> > > others still in the field (Barry Melton, Ike Willis, Jon Koonce, The
> > > X-Angels, Jeff Lorber, Stan Ridgway, and many more): everyone playing
> it got
> > > screwed, everyone listening got screwed, and everyone paying to hear it
> got
> > > screwed.
> > >
> > > A few interesting books for general reference (one on the forms coming
> > > classical and avant-garde, mainly from Europe; one covering rock and
> pop).
> > > There's plenty more. I'd appreciate any recommendations, especially
> dealing
> > > with the varieties of tonality, scales, etc. from other parts of the
> world.
> > >
> > > Here's two:
> > >
> > > Twentieth-Century Music: An Introduction - by Eric Salzman
> > >
> > > "Offering complete, accurate coverage in a tightly condensed, simple
> > > format, this comprehensive exploration of modern music (to 1998) deals
> > > primarily with the music itself and musical ideas. It puts the whole
> century
> > > in a unified concept, helping readers make sense out of the
> heterogeneity.
> > > It explains the overall development of 20th century music in relation
> to the
> > > past and to two big cycles of contemporary music; and encompasses
> classical
> > > and experimental traditions as well as popular elements, media,
> multi-media,
> > > and theater. Twentieth-Century Music and the Past. THE BREAKDOWN OF
> > > TRADITIONAL TONALITY. The Sources. The Revolution: Paris and Vienna.
> THE NEW
> > > TONALITIES. Stravinsky and Neo-Classicism. Neo-Classicism and
> Neo-Tonality
> > > in France and Outside of France. National Styles. Musical Theater.
> ATONALITY
> > > AND TWELVE-TONE MUSIC. The Viennese School. The Diffusion of
> Twelve-Tone
> > > Music. THE AVANT GARDE. Before World War II. Technological Culture and
> > > Electronic Music. Ultra-Rationality and Serialism. Anti-Rationality and
> > > Aleatory. The New Performed Music: The United States. Post-Serialism:
> The
> > > New Performance Practice in Europe. POST-MODERNISM. Beyond Modern
> Music.
> > > Back to Tonality. Pop as Culture. Media and Theater. Music Examples.
> For
> > > courses anyone interested in 20th Century Music, Modern Music, or the
> > > History of Music. "
> > >
> > > Rock and the Pop Narcotic - by Joe Carducci
> > >
> > >
> www.amazon.com/Rock-Pop-Narcotic-Joe-Carducci/dp/188098511X/ref=sr_1_146251484&sr=1-1
> > >
> > > Three reviews:
> > >
> > > "Joe Carducci is best known for playing a crucial role in the running
> of
> > > SST records, probably the most important US independent record label
> > > (certainly of the past 30 years), in the early 80's. The principal
> selling
> > > point for me was the long-overdue acknowledgement of the bands on the
> label,
> > > who were breaking new ground in rock music while the Euro-fixated rock
> press
> > > was asleep at the wheel covering bands and artists who were completely
> > > irrelevant to the form. Rock journalism is delivered a sound, much
> deserved
> > > beating from Carducci, and I treasured every minute of it. It's an
> > > indescribable breath of fresh air to hear a view contrary to its
> de-regeuer
> > > leftist utopianism, phobia of physical music, and projection of
> > > university-fostered social schemes onto rock music. His contrasting of
> > > "rock" vs. "pop" music is central to his aesthetic, and while I'll
> never
> > > understand his appreciation of certain bands, this is one of the best
> books
> > > on rock you'll read."
> > >
> > > "This book is impressive, and not only for the deep knowledge of rock
> that
> > > Carducci displays. The opening chapters describing what the "real"
> sounds of
> > > rock are should be required reading for anyone interested in forming a
> band.
> > > The scope of this book is unrivalled and the selections for the most
> > > influential bands will raise more than a few eyebrows (No where else
> will
> > > you see James "Blood" Ulmer mentioned in the same vein as Sabbath).
> Carducci
> > > rightly praises the "Black" bands (Sabbath and Flag) as the most
> influential
> > > in their respective genre's, but it may come as a surprise to many that
> > > Carducci attributes (perhaps correctly) the original "wall of sound"
> > > approach to Eddie Cochrane. While this book doesn't cover heavy metal
> and
> > > it's sub-genres very completely (see Ian Christe's Sound of the Beast
> for
> > > that), it wasn't meant to (see Title). In addition, this is one of the
> few
> > > books that credits (rightly) the Ramones for their widespread influence
> > > (early Black Flag and the Misfits to name two of the most well-known)..
> In
> > > addition to the depth of knowledge displayed, Carducci will have you
> rolling
> > > in laughter more than once. If all the above is not enough, the
> appendices
> > > with original poster art and one of the funniest Ray Pettibon paintings
> > > (Give me librium or give me meth....) are worth the price of the book
> alone.
> > > Buy it and then buy some essential music!"
> > >
> > > "Simply put: this is the best and most thoroughly under-rated book on
> the
> > > subject of rock music. Carducci knows his subject inside out and gives
> a
> > > belated due to many greats of the '70s and '80s (Pere Ubu, Black Flag,
> > > Ramones, Minutemen, Saccharine Trust, Birthday Party, etc.), as well as
> > > correcting so many of the falsities propogated by the leftist music
> media of
> > > the last 30-40 years. The basic contention is that "unfashionable"
> forms of
> > > ROCK MUSIC (surf, greaser, punk, heavy metal) have never been given
> their
> > > credit due to the class snobbery of the rock-crit elite who favour the
> > > liberal, do-gooding sounds of pop simps U2, Sting, etc. and because
> "real"
> > > rock doesn't have the marketability of the pop stars that imitate it.
> > > There's no way you'll agree with everything Carducci has to say, but
> it's
> > > certainly the only rock'n'roll book that's ever made me really THINK."
> > >
> > >
> > > I suggest:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jun 28, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Vikki Riley wrote:
> > >
> > > Totally irrelevant comparison Laurie.
> > >> Where's the aboriginal song here that whitey is singing?
> > >> We are not talking pop music
> > >> Vikki
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Laurie Colson <
> lauriecolson-AT-yahoo.com
> > >> >wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> When Elvis came out, some felt he climbed upon the backs of black
> > >>> artists.
> > >>> Consider the tale of Hound Dog. Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller were
> Jewish
> > >>> boys from the east coast who fell in love with black music. Hustling
> in
> > >>> L.A.
> > >>> in the early fifities, they wrote 'Hound Dog' and gave it to Johnny
> Otis
> > >>> a
> > >>> ruling R&B bandleader who was actually a dark skinned white man from
> > >>> Berkely
> > >>> who many thought was black. Otis gave the song to Mama Thornton, who
> made
> > >>> it
> > >>> a number on hit in 53, Otis also took part of the composers credit,
> > >>> Leiber
> > >>> and Stoller fought to get it back. Elvis heard the record, changed it
> > >>> completely, and cut Thornton's version to threads.
> > >>> Whites wrote it, a white made it a hit, Yet there is no denying Hound
> Dog
> > >>> is a black song, unthinkable outside the impulses of black music, and
> > >>> probably a piece of jukejoint fury dating before any of these people
> were
> > >>> alive. This was Elvis's music because he made it his own.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message ----
> > >>> From: Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com>
> > >>> To: Situationist <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
> > >>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 1:09:38 AM
> > >>> Subject: Re: Kundalini,Orgone,Chi,Christ,Tesla
> > >>>
> > >>> Chris
> > >>> Well I knew you were going to get tetchy about my comments re
> aboriginal
> > >>> music!
> > >>> What is wrong with authenticity I wonder and what excuse does the
> > >>> non-aboriginal have for claiming aboriginality?
> > >>> None.
> > >>> Colonialism and the conquering of indigenous peoples has seen land,
> > >>> language
> > >>> and culture destroyed and co-opted.
> > >>> I read your essays Chris about the expoloitation of people by
> > >>> Imperialist,
> > >>> Marxist and Fascist entities/States and am very suprised that when we
> > >>> have
> > >>> an example of this,
> > >>> you are up in arms. No this guy pklaying trance-fusion music by using
> a
> > >>> didgeridoo( possibly a commercially made one from Asia in fact) is
> NOT
> > >>> practising aboriginal music.
> > >>> The didgeridoo is used in ceremony, played by certain men or boys.
> There
> > >>> are
> > >>> various ceremonies, involving men's business or dance ceremonies
> where
> > >>> the
> > >>> instrument is
> > >>> leads in the dancers. Good players mimic sounds - nature, animals -
> > >>> unlike
> > >>> clapsticks the dideridoo is not a rhythm maker.
> > >>> Sadly those who pick it up and use it in a "world music" setting end
> up
> > >>> sounding like kazoos or worse, as many aboriginal people joke, a
> white
> > >>> man
> > >>> farting.
> > >>> I would say ditto to the Celtic music in a sense. Irish music has a
> > >>> particular root and birthplace at the crossroads of Moroccan and
> Spanish
> > >>> medieval music that only comes from geographical history.
> > >>> The Scotsman pipes are a bit removed from that.
> > >>> No I do not delight in distorting anything Chris.
> > >>> Just defending those whose culture has been commodified, sanitised
> and
> > >>> misrepresented.In the interests of money/self promotion.
> > >>> The whole time I have been on this list I have received deriding
> stupid
> > >>> and
> > >>> ignorant comments about my country of origin.
> > >>> I've been accused of being silent.
> > >>> I'm in a different time zone from all of you!!!
> > >>> I sent Kathy a good didgeridu player to look at in the hope she will
> take
> > >>> interest.
> > >>> I can send more. Its called generosity of knowledge that I presumed
> this
> > >>> list was about.
> > >>> Never mind that I am a published writer on music and do have a degree
> of
> > >>> expertise. I've never taken the piss out of your knowledge.
> > >>> Vikki
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Christopher Gray <
> > >>> rasputin-AT-teleport.com
> > >>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I see. Again, unless a Celt is playing Celtic music, it's NOT
> Celtic?!
> > >>>> Unless an Aborigine is playing Aboriginal music it isn't Aboriginal?
> > >>>> Unless a women is singing a song written by a woman it can't have
> any
> > >>>> meaning?
> > >>>> Unless Bill Monroe is playing one of his own songs, it isn't
> bluegrass?
> > >>>> What utter non-sense!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You delight in distorting, misquoting, and deriving delusive
> conclusions
> > >>>> about everything anybody says, but cannot go back in time to delete
> the
> > >>>> message where your misrepresentation begins.
> > >>>> I never said that Kinder was anything. I said he played it!
> > >>>> How much more fucking simple does it have to get?
> > >>>> Is this mindless deconstruction of languages' semantics going after
> > >>>>
> > >>> syntax
> > >>>
> > >>>> next, and then its very lexicality, escorting a complementary
> > >>>>
> > >>> dumbification
> > >>>
> > >>>> into the social brain (as brain disease), only to be satisfied when
> > >>>>
> > >>> grunts
> > >>>
> > >>>> and clicks between collared drooling boneheads is all that's left?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Efforts on this list have that project well on its way, complete
> with
> > >>>> organic re-subhuman prototyping....
> > >>>> It's really irritating and not interesting at all.
> > >>>> And attractive? Hardly.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> chris
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Jun 24, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Vikki Riley wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Chris
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Stephen Kent is from San Fran. He's not aboriginal.
> > >>>>> No credibility whatsover so Kathy's tastes are quite KMartish .
> > >>>>> Yidaki players are taught by elders at the age of 5 usually. Very
> few
> > >>>>> white
> > >>>>> people are priveleged to be brought up by traditional aboriginal
> > >>>>> musicians.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Vikki
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Christopher Gray <
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> rasputin-AT-teleport.com
> > >>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What?!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Quite the imagination.
> > >>>>>> Pass a name around the circle and when it comes back you don't
> even
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> know
> > >>>
> > >>>> the person that everyone else has re-created. It's an interesting
> > >>>>>> game....
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> She likes music from all over the world, especially, I've noticed,
> > >>>>>> Scottish-Indian fusion (Enya), heavy surf (Dick Dale, Gary Hoey),
> > >>>>>> classical
> > >>>>>> Indian instrumental, psychedelic surf (The Mermen, Polo del Mar) ,
> > >>>>>> electronica (Tangerine Dream), "spaghetti" western music
> (including
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> Wall
> > >>>
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> Voodoo), Asian fusion, violin rock-fusion (Jean-Luc Ponty, Jerry
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> Goodman,
> > >>>
> > >>>> Steve Kindler, Scarlet Rivera), Aboriginal (Stephen Kent, Steve
> Roch),
> > >>>>>> "acid" trance, Celtic (Enya), Indian (Rasa, Shankar),
> Andes-American
> > >>>>>> (Cusco), etc. Most of it wouldn't work in a strip bar. She does
> have
> > >>>>>> some
> > >>>>>> "Grind" music and "lounge" sound. So, she is appreciative of many
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> musical
> > >>>
> > >>>> roots, as am I; her son was a keyboard composer and her daughter
> plays
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>> teaches jazz bass in Oakland-Berkeley.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> She can dance all over the place while I occasionally join in.
> Music
> > >>>>>> is
> > >>>>>> dead here: no clubs but for headbash-metal or polyester-disco
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> hangovers.
> > >>>
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>>> have yet to get anyone but Kathy to see The Tubes or Stan Ridgway
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> (first
> > >>>
> > >>>> lead singer for Wall of Voodoo); she'll go, but others in the area
> are
> > >>>>>> lost
> > >>>>>> in the drone of [c]rap and p[l]op or commercial jingles.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Since she quit the list long ago, and is not wishing for abstract
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> attacks
> > >>>
> > >>>> on her to be passive-aggressively used against me, she asked that
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> anyone
> > >>>
> > >>>> finding her "Black Box" Self-introduction (listed below)
> interesting,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> please feel free to contact her directly via her email at <
> > >>>>>> kathykundalini-AT-committee-for-transcendence.org>:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> =========================> > >>>>>> My name is Kathy. I am here to (hopefully, perhaps, maybe) engage
> with
> > >>>>>> others in the creation of a path and practice aimed towards a
> > >>>>>> personal/collective transformation and liberation. For me, such a
> path
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>
> > >>>> a
> > >>>>>> deeply personal project, as well as, a social/historical and
> global
> > >>>>>> project.
> > >>>>>> I do not have a party-line or recipe to apply. Rather, I wish to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> develop
> > >>>
> > >>>> thoughtful, playful, "subversive," open-ended, and experimental
> > >>>>>> activities
> > >>>>>> of "political" engagement. But, perhaps more importantly, I also
> wish
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> create an ongoing, exploratory practice of transformation of our
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> current
> > >>>
> > >>>> forms of consciousness, of our personal sense of who, and what, we
> > >>>>>> are.
> > >>>>>> For
> > >>>>>> me, practice is not only about what we "do to others" -- but also
> what
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> we
> > >>>
> > >>>> do
> > >>>>>> to ourselves. I feel my personal path of awakening and radical
> > >>>>>> transformation is really just beginning, not an accomplished fact
> at
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> all.
> > >>>
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>>> am not talking only about knowledge-acquisition or learning more
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> theory,
> > >>>
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>>> I am not excluding these either. I am referring to the
> experiential
> > >>>>>> quality
> > >>>>>> of our lives, of our self-understanding of "who we are," and what
> this
> > >>>>>> life-world might be, as in, this planet, this universe, these
> living
> > >>>>>> organisms that we are, these conscious experiences that we seem to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> have.
> > >>>
> > >>>> Who
> > >>>>>> am I? Who are you? What do I see when I look into your eyes? How
> do I
> > >>>>>> have
> > >>>>>> these experiences? How is it I find myself here and now -- with
> you?
> > >>>>>> It
> > >>>>>> is
> > >>>>>> about awakening and more awakening, and finding ways to express
> our
> > >>>>>> awakening, and also of becoming more compassionate, mindful,
> > >>>>>> conscious,
> > >>>>>> present-to-our-lives. I guess I am talking about some kind of
> > >>>>>> "enlightenment," a shared enlightenment, a collective
> transcendence.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> All
> > >>>
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> us, together.
> > >>>>>> I have a general critique of world capitalism, and, for all of my
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> adult
> > >>>
> > >>>> life, I have been either actively attempting to promote a world
> > >>>>>> revolution,
> > >>>>>> or silently awaiting such a global movement to appear. But my
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> attraction
> > >>>
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>> such ideas and practices has not come from a sense of
> other-oriented
> > >>>>>> duty,
> > >>>>>> but rather because these modes of thinking and acting were
> inherently
> > >>>>>> interesting, engaging, seductive, challenging. Radical
> consciousness
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> has
> > >>>
> > >>>> its
> > >>>>>> own rewards, as it speaks to who we are and who we want to be. My
> > >>>>>> interests
> > >>>>>> range beyond what is "traditionally" seen as "political" or
> "Marxist."
> > >>>>>> Yes,
> > >>>>>> I am drawn toward understanding history, radical social movements,
> > >>>>>> general
> > >>>>>> critiques of capitalist society, alienated labor, the commodity
> form,
> > >>>>>> class
> > >>>>>> societies, etc. But I am also very much interested in other
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> philosophies
> > >>>
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>>> viewpoints, like those of existentialism, phenomenology,
> "primitive"
> > >>>>>> societies, "New Age" thinking, etc., and I am also very involved
> in
> > >>>>>> "Eastern" thought, such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Vedanta, Yoga,
> Tantra,
> > >>>>>> etc. I
> > >>>>>> have found, in particular, that these "Eastern" approaches have
> potent
> > >>>>>> techniques that can assist one who sees herself on a
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> self-transformative
> > >>>
> > >>>> path -- techniques such as meditation, yoga, ecstatic dance,
> chanting,
> > >>>>>> breathing, compassion-in-action, existential questioning,
> integration
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>
> > >>>> body/mind, consciousness transformation, etc. But, as I said, I also
> > >>>>>> remain
> > >>>>>> "political." I have yet to integrate all these various strands of
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> thought
> > >>>
> > >>>> and practice, stretching from Marxist critique to Buddhist breathing
> > >>>>>> meditation, etc., into a "coherent" viewpoint, except as they all
> > >>>>>> intersect
> > >>>>>> in me. But whatever trend of thought I find myself exploring, I
> try to
> > >>>>>> allow
> > >>>>>> the ideas to sink into me, and to alter me in some way -- as in,
> to
> > >>>>>> change
> > >>>>>> my experience and my orientation toward life. Practice is the key
> --
> > >>>>>> though
> > >>>>>> personally I cannot put myself on any kind of pedestal in that
> regard,
> > >>>>>> politically or spiritually.
> > >>>>>> So my endeavor is not to substitute the purely personal for the
> > >>>>>> political
> > >>>>>> -- but rather, to develop a practice that aims for the mutually
> > >>>>>> integrative
> > >>>>>> transcendence of both. Yes, I want to participate in a global
> movement
> > >>>>>> that
> > >>>>>> might take us all beyond the constrictions of our current daily
> lives,
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>> beyond the ever-threatening crisis of world capitalism. But I am
> also
> > >>>>>> a
> > >>>>>> human consciousness, living all the mystery that this involves. I
> am
> > >>>>>> aware
> > >>>>>> of my own existence, though I do not understand it, and cannot
> explain
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> it
> > >>>
> > >>>> at
> > >>>>>> all. But this is my life, I am living it now. I want to awaken
> more
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>> more
> > >>>>>> to what this might "mean," and to awaken to what my possibilities
> are,
> > >>>>>> right
> > >>>>>> now, in this moment. So I am not only a historical being, but also
> an
> > >>>>>> existential/spiritual being, searching for transcendence. It is a
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> matter
> > >>>
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> simultaneously locating myself, with others, on this
> social-historical
> > >>>>>> dimension, while also creating the forms of self-reflective
> expression
> > >>>>>> for
> > >>>>>> what we feel "inside" -- to explore, embody, and express certain
> > >>>>>> potentials
> > >>>>>> -- and also to create the path to the "other side of this life" --
> the
> > >>>>>> path
> > >>>>>> toward that which calls from just beyond the horizon of
> consciousness,
> > >>>>>> beyond these constricting social forms, beyond what we have been
> told
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> it
> > >>>
> > >>>> means to be a person in this society.
> > >>>>>> So then, the question becomes, how does my path intersect with
> others?
> > >>>>>> With yours? What can we do individually and collectively to
> > >>>>>> self-understand,
> > >>>>>> self-create, self-transform? How do we mutually provoke, enliven,
> and
> > >>>>>> express our need for transcendence? How to do this amidst this
> > >>>>>> overwhelming
> > >>>>>> and omnipresent capitalist society? How to engage in
> > >>>>>> social/personal/transformative practice -- effectively?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> So this is a little of me. And so, now, who are you? Who would you
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> like
> > >>>
> > >>>> to be? What would you like to do? What can we do together? What game
> > >>>>>> do
> > >>>>>> you
> > >>>>>> want to play today?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Namaste (I bow to you)
> > >>>>>> Kathy
> > >>>>>> =========================> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> best wishes,
> > >>>>>> chris
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jun 23, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Vikki Riley wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hey Laurie
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Well I've been to San Fran and smelt the err petrol fumes err I
> mean
> > >>>>>>> organic
> > >>>>>>> garden aromas competing with latino noise and coke
> addicts.....Wish
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I'd
> > >>>
> > >>>> met
> > >>>>>>> Kathy Kundalini I guess if she was in the Mission she'd be a
> stripper
> > >>>>>>> gyrating to alt rock no doubt..
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Laurie Colson <
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> lauriecolson-AT-yahoo.com
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I don't think Buddha is New Age, it's No Age, but I was saying
> that I
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>> known many New Agers that embrace Buddhist principles; while
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> belittling
> > >>>
> > >>>> Christian ones. If I had a Phd. from Berkley--well I know it's
> > >>>>>>>> different
> > >>>>>>>> out
> > >>>>>>>> there but I would put my real name in front of it. I inferred a
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> NewAge
> > >>>
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>>>>> Orgone reference in the psuedonym, Kundalini. I could not help
> but
> > >>>>>>>> do
> > >>>>>>>> so.
> > >>>>>>>> You live in San Fran, and have a garden, fruit and nut orchard?
> > >>>>>>>> You receive Social Security, but are waiting till it is cut off
> to
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> exit
> > >>>
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>>>> dependency matrix? Callling me procapitalist? I don't have
> capital
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> like
> > >>>
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>>>>> don't have equity or own anything over a couple hundred bucks,
> for
> > >>>>>>>> real.
> > >>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>> receive social security also, and as told you my daughter who
> lives
> > >>>>>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>> me
> > >>>>>>>> is taxpaying U.S.M.C. (I know, women usually have more empathy
> > >>>>>>>> regarding
> > >>>>>>>> humans. She's only twenty. Empathy as exhibited in passage from
> you
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> another human ""The One" is such an asshole liar, always seeking the
> > >>>>>>>> attention that people defending themselves or views brings back
> to
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> IT,
> > >>>
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>>>> liar.
> > >>>>>>>> IT ought to try inserting ITS manhood up ITS own ass; it's as
> close
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> love
> > >>>>>>>> as IT'll probably get, although I'm certain limp rape. But then,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> IT'll
> > >>>
> > >>>> never
> > >>>>>>>> call ITself the next day, and the world of IT-top and IT-bottom,
> > >>>>>>>> eternally
> > >>>>>>>> dualistic, will be all who "care", if IT possesses even that
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> quality."
> > >>>
> > >>>> I am "insensitive/ignorant visionless capitalist fascist." I am not
> > >>>>>>>> guilty of ad-hominum attacks, at least. What's wrong with Star
> Wars?
> > >>>>>>>> George
> > >>>>>>>> Lucas is a visionary. So there. Are you saying lastly that
> taking a
> > >>>>>>>> shit
> > >>>>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>> a procapitalistfascist movement? A good bowel movement is a sign
> of
> > >>>>>>>> robust
> > >>>>>>>> health.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>>>> From: Christopher Gray <rasputin-AT-teleport.com>
> > >>>>>>>> To: Situationist <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Christopher Gray <rasputin-AT-teleport.com>
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:00:06 AM
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kundalini,Orgone,Chi,Christ,Tesla
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> sadly, the Visionless One cannot comprehend that some people use
> > >>>>>>>> pseudonyms
> > >>>>>>>> and aliases. In fact, ALL email uses aliasing to even work at
> all.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Some
> > >>>
> > >>>> people use anonymous servers. Others like to keep some privacy so
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> they
> > >>>
> > >>>> get
> > >>>>>>>> Yahoo, MSN/Hotmail, or Google/gmail email addresses. It's a
> security
> > >>>>>>>> measure
> > >>>>>>>> as well. But then, when you cannot see a need for security 1
> inch in
> > >>>>>>>> front
> > >>>>>>>> of your nose, well... perhaps the sense as well as the fun both
> get
> > >>>>>>>> missed.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Kathy went on to get a library sciences masters degree and used
> it
> > >>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>> get
> > >>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>> job at the SF Chronicle for nearly 24 years before the another
> SFC
> > >>>>>>>> demise-pending layoff of recent. Since we combine for less than
> 1/2
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> of
> > >>>
> > >>>> what
> > >>>>>>>> either of use used to get, we are spending much time gardening
> food
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> so
> > >>>
> > >>>> we
> > >>>>>>>> can save money and store food, carrying bath/shower water to the
> > >>>>>>>> rain
> > >>>>>>>> barrel
> > >>>>>>>> or directly to the garden fruits/nut trees, etc.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> When her unemployment runs out or when my Social Security is cut
> > >>>>>>>> off,
> > >>>>>>>> we
> > >>>>>>>> will lose the house and be on the street. For now, we are trying
> as
> > >>>>>>>> cheaply
> > >>>>>>>> as we can to get off the matrix of dependency so that we have no
> > >>>>>>>> food
> > >>>>>>>> or
> > >>>>>>>> utility bills, only a mortgage (bank as the landlord) payment.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Buddhism is not New Age. That kind of snide disregard for how a
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> greter
> > >>>
> > >>>> portion of the world sees reality is expected and typically
> > >>>>>>>> insensitive/ignorant.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I appreciate your undeterred interest. Women usually have more
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> empathy
> > >>>
> > >>>> regarding humans. Cranking out idiots high on Doom, Star Wars,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Extreme
> > >>>
> > >>>> Cage
> > >>>>>>>> Fighting, and aggressive cynicism is why there is no movement
> today
> > >>>>>>>> worth
> > >>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>> shit, except for that movement itself, which is proto-fascist
> and
> > >>>>>>>> pro-capitalist.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Send Kathy an email. She'd enjoy your views and comments....
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> best,
> > >>>>>>>> chris
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 2009, at 10:11 PM, Laurie Colson wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Baltimore? have you ever seen Pink Flamingos by John Waters?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> According
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Chris Grey Kathy Kundalini is from Berkley, Ca, were she
> attended
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> university
> > >>>>>>>> in philosophy. I don't see how it is likely design students and
> New
> > >>>>>>>> Agers
> > >>>>>>>> and Sarte deconstructors engage with History and Class
> > >>>>>>>> Conciousness,
> > >>>>>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>> she and others supposedly do in S.I. It's a big tent.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>>>>> From: Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>> To: Situationist <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
> > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:54:55 AM
> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kundalini,Orgone,Chi,Christ,Tesla
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Yeah right my real name is Victoria Viagra
> > >>>>>>>>> What a load of New Age trash! Kathy Kundalini is probably some
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> tranvestite
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> from where? Baltimore no doubt
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Laurie Colson <
> > >>>>>>>>> lauriecolson-AT-yahoo.com
> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> "Kathy's work includes several pieces that may be of use to you
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> w/r/t
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> her ability to synthesize Buddhism, Native American beliefs,
> > >>>>>>>>>> phenomenology, Hegelian dialectics, and Situationist theory:"
> > >>>>>>>>>> ...slowly i turned....
> > >>>>>>>>>> Her name is seriously Kathy Kundalini? Man, I feel stupid for
> not
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> putting
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> all this together sooner, Orgone IS Kundalini, Chi, Prana,
> Christ. I
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> just
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> haven't been thinking I guess. Reich split from Freud was
> because he
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> claimed
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> libido was an actual measurable force, Orgone, which could be
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> accumulated...
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> searching the internet, accumulators come in all variety, and
> price
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> range
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> addressing societal environment cancer illls. The romantic in me
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> thinks
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> mythology of Reich is cool, but his is a mystic and philosopher,
> not
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> an
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> engineer or phycist. His accumulator is a low powered Tesla
> coil,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>
> members.dslextreme.com/users/rogermw/Reich/orgone_field_meter.html
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> He thought orgone was being messed with from flying saucers.
> Tesla
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> was
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> an
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> eccentric also. But an electrical engineer and physcst.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Aside from his work on electromagnetism and electromechanical
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> engineering,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Tesla has contributed in varying degrees to the establishment of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> robotics,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> remote control, radar and computer science, and to the expansion
> of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ballistics, nuclear physics,[8] and theoretical physics. In
> 1943,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>
> > >>>> Supreme Court of the United States credited him as being the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> inventor
> > >>>
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> radio.[9]
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Many of his achievements have been used, with some
> controversy, to
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> support various pseudosciences, UFO theories, and early New
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Ageoccultism. <
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Why do New Agers shun and deny the Christ form of this light
> energy,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> not buddha? Or laying on of hands? how differ from Reichi etc..
> I've
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> always
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> said I didn't believe in anything supernatural but I have no way
> of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> knowing.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> But when speaking of Reich, well, people should be more careful,
> at
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> least
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> stating the nature of his work. Maybe I should get Ms.
> Khundalini's
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> work
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> on
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Dialectic No More; or a cerebral torque wrench. I mean this
> stuff,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> seriously. Maybe I'll go read some Allan Ginsburg, or listen to
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Tesla
> > >>>
> > >>>> records. Just cause I love Kate Bush's Cloudbusting doesn't mean I
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> should
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> have posted it in defense of Reich.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of
> a
> > >>>>>>>>>> message
> > >>>>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of
> a
> > >>>>>>>>> message
> > >>>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of
> a
> > >>>>>>>>> message
> > >>>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a
> > >>>>>>>> messageto
> > >>>>>>>> requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a
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> > >>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a
> > >>>>>>>
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> > >>>
> > >>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a
> > >>>>>> messageto
> > >>>>>> requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>
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> > >>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>
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> > >>>>> ----
> > >>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
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> > >>>
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> > >>>> ----
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> _________________________________________________________________
> Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you.
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Integrated? Are you serious? Do you really see integration as a virtue because I dont. Not for Whitey anyway.
I live in a place called Barry in South Wales, not the Baltimore of popular imagination. Sounds to me like your idea of integration is people who mall together or chat in the bookstore.
Barry people are integrated alright. They are a bunch of fucking rednecks with an open minded view of the world about one nanometer across.
Welcome to Noniggersville. You know this is a seabord and tightly knit in that all these fucking morons all know each other. But Marthas fucking Vineyard it aint.
What Im saying is that there is a downside to integration. You will find that integration is a specialism of poor people whch is what is happening here. You wont find any fucking Laura Ashley shit here. Plenty of fat bully girls though confident in their shared values of bad body image and anyone who doesnt come from here can go and fuck themselves.
These kind of people go abroad for their miserable dissipated drunken holidays and come back pleased with having fucked over some foreigners.
Barry should be transported to Nevada and fucking vitrified in a new test programme funded by the Welsh Assembly.
Thats what I think of integration. Im in a bad mood this morning. Nobody fuck with me.
--- On Tue, 30/6/09, Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com> wrote:
From: Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com>
Subject: Re: authentic music/appropriation
To: "Situationist" <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
Date: Tuesday, 30 June, 2009, 4:18 AM
Diana
What do you mean by integrated?
The melting pot idea?
Please clarify.
Vikki
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Diana Manister <dmanister-AT-hotmail.com>wrote:
>
> I can't believe any community is more integrated than the North Shore of
> Staten Island where I live, including the towns of New Brighton, West
> Brighton, Port Richmond, Tompkinsville and Stapleton. I'll put these up
> against any five towns anywhere on that score.
>
>
>
> Diana
>
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:16:29 +0930
> > Subject: Re: authentic music/appropriation
> > From: riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com
> > To: situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> >
> > On the website for where you live Chris it states that Pleasant Hill CA
> is
> > 68.5% white. It does list the other demographics in their pitiful
> numbers. I
> > notice their are no Indians or Afghanis on the list. Must make eating out
> > boring over there.
> > Where I live - hey I hate to be an ambassador but its a kind of utopia I
> > think. If I drive 2 hours east from town I'm in 99% blackfella land.
> Where
> > they call European people "pink" , how accurate.
> > My initial point was about non-aboriginal people foolishly playing an
> > aboriginal instrument and claiming they are a bona fide player.
> > Its all spiralled out of control by your ignorance about this whole
> subject.
> > Why can't you concede other people may know about this subject?
> > Your average Joe in Australia knows all this stuff about who can and
> can't
> > perform aboriginal culture.
> >
> > Vikki
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Christopher Gray <rasputin-AT-teleport.com
> >wrote:
> >
> > > And "whitey" isn't a racist term like "blackie" or "nigger"? It's a
> > > euphemism for "honkie".
> > > What's with the hate of any member of our one race, including "whitey".
> > >
> > > It may interest you to know that many "black" Polynesians (a
> geographical
> > > area) are "Caucasoid" (an anthropological "sub-race" term).
> > > Michael Jackson was near-"white" and was still considered "Negroid"
> > > (another anthropological"sub-race" term).
> > > U.S. government idiots labeled a "race" as a choice between elements of
> > > disparate sets, "Asian" (i.e., geographical set), "white" (a color that
> can
> > > be from most anywhere), "African-American" (some fuzzy combination of
> three
> > > continents), Native American (based on a period of time preceding the
> > > African, Asian, South American, and European immigrations), Vietnamese
> (a
> > > nation-state).
> > > The absurdity of classifications exposes that no one cares who you are
> just
> > > as long as an agenda based in quantification makes a usable object out
> of
> > > you, as if for some politicians' lie demographic....
> > >
> > > Most "pop" music doesn't come from this hated "whitey" anyway.
> > > Just read "Billboard" and the sales tallies for the last 35 years.
> > > Motown was as "pop" as it gets, just as is "elevator jazz" and is
> > > "hip-hop".
> > > I liked Motown and hated "boy bands".
> > > Am I "white", "black", or a demographic for both the Brill Building
> "hit"
> > > factory, payola of colorless capital and its post-leather "sweet
> nothings",
> > > or what?
> > >
> > > I worked as a DJ, in a record store (7 years), and played in several
> bands
> > > (from age 12-17).
> > > Musical history, from what I experienced and from what I learned from
> > > others still in the field (Barry Melton, Ike Willis, Jon Koonce, The
> > > X-Angels, Jeff Lorber, Stan Ridgway, and many more): everyone playing
> it got
> > > screwed, everyone listening got screwed, and everyone paying to hear it
> got
> > > screwed.
> > >
> > > A few interesting books for general reference (one on the forms coming
> > > classical and avant-garde, mainly from Europe; one covering rock and
> pop).
> > > There's plenty more. I'd appreciate any recommendations, especially
> dealing
> > > with the varieties of tonality, scales, etc. from other parts of the
> world.
> > >
> > > Here's two:
> > >
> > > Twentieth-Century Music: An Introduction - by Eric Salzman
> > >
> > > "Offering complete, accurate coverage in a tightly condensed, simple
> > > format, this comprehensive exploration of modern music (to 1998) deals
> > > primarily with the music itself and musical ideas. It puts the whole
> century
> > > in a unified concept, helping readers make sense out of the
> heterogeneity.
> > > It explains the overall development of 20th century music in relation
> to the
> > > past and to two big cycles of contemporary music; and encompasses
> classical
> > > and experimental traditions as well as popular elements, media,
> multi-media,
> > > and theater. Twentieth-Century Music and the Past. THE BREAKDOWN OF
> > > TRADITIONAL TONALITY. The Sources. The Revolution: Paris and Vienna.
> THE NEW
> > > TONALITIES. Stravinsky and Neo-Classicism. Neo-Classicism and
> Neo-Tonality
> > > in France and Outside of France. National Styles. Musical Theater.
> ATONALITY
> > > AND TWELVE-TONE MUSIC. The Viennese School. The Diffusion of
> Twelve-Tone
> > > Music. THE AVANT GARDE. Before World War II. Technological Culture and
> > > Electronic Music. Ultra-Rationality and Serialism. Anti-Rationality and
> > > Aleatory. The New Performed Music: The United States. Post-Serialism:
> The
> > > New Performance Practice in Europe. POST-MODERNISM. Beyond Modern
> Music.
> > > Back to Tonality. Pop as Culture. Media and Theater. Music Examples.
> For
> > > courses anyone interested in 20th Century Music, Modern Music, or the
> > > History of Music. "
> > >
> > > Rock and the Pop Narcotic - by Joe Carducci
> > >
> > >
> www.amazon.com/Rock-Pop-Narcotic-Joe-Carducci/dp/188098511X/ref=sr_1_146251484&sr=1-1
> > >
> > > Three reviews:
> > >
> > > "Joe Carducci is best known for playing a crucial role in the running
> of
> > > SST records, probably the most important US independent record label
> > > (certainly of the past 30 years), in the early 80's. The principal
> selling
> > > point for me was the long-overdue acknowledgement of the bands on the
> label,
> > > who were breaking new ground in rock music while the Euro-fixated rock
> press
> > > was asleep at the wheel covering bands and artists who were completely
> > > irrelevant to the form. Rock journalism is delivered a sound, much
> deserved
> > > beating from Carducci, and I treasured every minute of it. It's an
> > > indescribable breath of fresh air to hear a view contrary to its
> de-regeuer
> > > leftist utopianism, phobia of physical music, and projection of
> > > university-fostered social schemes onto rock music. His contrasting of
> > > "rock" vs. "pop" music is central to his aesthetic, and while I'll
> never
> > > understand his appreciation of certain bands, this is one of the best
> books
> > > on rock you'll read."
> > >
> > > "This book is impressive, and not only for the deep knowledge of rock
> that
> > > Carducci displays. The opening chapters describing what the "real"
> sounds of
> > > rock are should be required reading for anyone interested in forming a
> band.
> > > The scope of this book is unrivalled and the selections for the most
> > > influential bands will raise more than a few eyebrows (No where else
> will
> > > you see James "Blood" Ulmer mentioned in the same vein as Sabbath).
> Carducci
> > > rightly praises the "Black" bands (Sabbath and Flag) as the most
> influential
> > > in their respective genre's, but it may come as a surprise to many that
> > > Carducci attributes (perhaps correctly) the original "wall of sound"
> > > approach to Eddie Cochrane. While this book doesn't cover heavy metal
> and
> > > it's sub-genres very completely (see Ian Christe's Sound of the Beast
> for
> > > that), it wasn't meant to (see Title). In addition, this is one of the
> few
> > > books that credits (rightly) the Ramones for their widespread influence
> > > (early Black Flag and the Misfits to name two of the most well-known)..
> In
> > > addition to the depth of knowledge displayed, Carducci will have you
> rolling
> > > in laughter more than once. If all the above is not enough, the
> appendices
> > > with original poster art and one of the funniest Ray Pettibon paintings
> > > (Give me librium or give me meth....) are worth the price of the book
> alone.
> > > Buy it and then buy some essential music!"
> > >
> > > "Simply put: this is the best and most thoroughly under-rated book on
> the
> > > subject of rock music. Carducci knows his subject inside out and gives
> a
> > > belated due to many greats of the '70s and '80s (Pere Ubu, Black Flag,
> > > Ramones, Minutemen, Saccharine Trust, Birthday Party, etc.), as well as
> > > correcting so many of the falsities propogated by the leftist music
> media of
> > > the last 30-40 years. The basic contention is that "unfashionable"
> forms of
> > > ROCK MUSIC (surf, greaser, punk, heavy metal) have never been given
> their
> > > credit due to the class snobbery of the rock-crit elite who favour the
> > > liberal, do-gooding sounds of pop simps U2, Sting, etc. and because
> "real"
> > > rock doesn't have the marketability of the pop stars that imitate it.
> > > There's no way you'll agree with everything Carducci has to say, but
> it's
> > > certainly the only rock'n'roll book that's ever made me really THINK."
> > >
> > >
> > > I suggest:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jun 28, 2009, at 7:23 PM, Vikki Riley wrote:
> > >
> > > Totally irrelevant comparison Laurie.
> > >> Where's the aboriginal song here that whitey is singing?
> > >> We are not talking pop music
> > >> Vikki
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Laurie Colson <
> lauriecolson-AT-yahoo.com
> > >> >wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> When Elvis came out, some felt he climbed upon the backs of black
> > >>> artists.
> > >>> Consider the tale of Hound Dog. Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller were
> Jewish
> > >>> boys from the east coast who fell in love with black music. Hustling
> in
> > >>> L.A.
> > >>> in the early fifities, they wrote 'Hound Dog' and gave it to Johnny
> Otis
> > >>> a
> > >>> ruling R&B bandleader who was actually a dark skinned white man from
> > >>> Berkely
> > >>> who many thought was black. Otis gave the song to Mama Thornton, who
> made
> > >>> it
> > >>> a number on hit in 53, Otis also took part of the composers credit,
> > >>> Leiber
> > >>> and Stoller fought to get it back. Elvis heard the record, changed it
> > >>> completely, and cut Thornton's version to threads.
> > >>> Whites wrote it, a white made it a hit, Yet there is no denying Hound
> Dog
> > >>> is a black song, unthinkable outside the impulses of black music, and
> > >>> probably a piece of jukejoint fury dating before any of these people
> were
> > >>> alive. This was Elvis's music because he made it his own.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ----- Original Message ----
> > >>> From: Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com>
> > >>> To: Situationist <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
> > >>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 1:09:38 AM
> > >>> Subject: Re: Kundalini,Orgone,Chi,Christ,Tesla
> > >>>
> > >>> Chris
> > >>> Well I knew you were going to get tetchy about my comments re
> aboriginal
> > >>> music!
> > >>> What is wrong with authenticity I wonder and what excuse does the
> > >>> non-aboriginal have for claiming aboriginality?
> > >>> None.
> > >>> Colonialism and the conquering of indigenous peoples has seen land,
> > >>> language
> > >>> and culture destroyed and co-opted.
> > >>> I read your essays Chris about the expoloitation of people by
> > >>> Imperialist,
> > >>> Marxist and Fascist entities/States and am very suprised that when we
> > >>> have
> > >>> an example of this,
> > >>> you are up in arms. No this guy pklaying trance-fusion music by using
> a
> > >>> didgeridoo( possibly a commercially made one from Asia in fact) is
> NOT
> > >>> practising aboriginal music.
> > >>> The didgeridoo is used in ceremony, played by certain men or boys.
> There
> > >>> are
> > >>> various ceremonies, involving men's business or dance ceremonies
> where
> > >>> the
> > >>> instrument is
> > >>> leads in the dancers. Good players mimic sounds - nature, animals -
> > >>> unlike
> > >>> clapsticks the dideridoo is not a rhythm maker.
> > >>> Sadly those who pick it up and use it in a "world music" setting end
> up
> > >>> sounding like kazoos or worse, as many aboriginal people joke, a
> white
> > >>> man
> > >>> farting.
> > >>> I would say ditto to the Celtic music in a sense. Irish music has a
> > >>> particular root and birthplace at the crossroads of Moroccan and
> Spanish
> > >>> medieval music that only comes from geographical history.
> > >>> The Scotsman pipes are a bit removed from that.
> > >>> No I do not delight in distorting anything Chris.
> > >>> Just defending those whose culture has been commodified, sanitised
> and
> > >>> misrepresented.In the interests of money/self promotion.
> > >>> The whole time I have been on this list I have received deriding
> stupid
> > >>> and
> > >>> ignorant comments about my country of origin.
> > >>> I've been accused of being silent.
> > >>> I'm in a different time zone from all of you!!!
> > >>> I sent Kathy a good didgeridu player to look at in the hope she will
> take
> > >>> interest.
> > >>> I can send more. Its called generosity of knowledge that I presumed
> this
> > >>> list was about.
> > >>> Never mind that I am a published writer on music and do have a degree
> of
> > >>> expertise. I've never taken the piss out of your knowledge.
> > >>> Vikki
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 12:17 AM, Christopher Gray <
> > >>> rasputin-AT-teleport.com
> > >>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I see. Again, unless a Celt is playing Celtic music, it's NOT
> Celtic?!
> > >>>> Unless an Aborigine is playing Aboriginal music it isn't Aboriginal?
> > >>>> Unless a women is singing a song written by a woman it can't have
> any
> > >>>> meaning?
> > >>>> Unless Bill Monroe is playing one of his own songs, it isn't
> bluegrass?
> > >>>> What utter non-sense!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You delight in distorting, misquoting, and deriving delusive
> conclusions
> > >>>> about everything anybody says, but cannot go back in time to delete
> the
> > >>>> message where your misrepresentation begins.
> > >>>> I never said that Kinder was anything. I said he played it!
> > >>>> How much more fucking simple does it have to get?
> > >>>> Is this mindless deconstruction of languages' semantics going after
> > >>>>
> > >>> syntax
> > >>>
> > >>>> next, and then its very lexicality, escorting a complementary
> > >>>>
> > >>> dumbification
> > >>>
> > >>>> into the social brain (as brain disease), only to be satisfied when
> > >>>>
> > >>> grunts
> > >>>
> > >>>> and clicks between collared drooling boneheads is all that's left?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Efforts on this list have that project well on its way, complete
> with
> > >>>> organic re-subhuman prototyping....
> > >>>> It's really irritating and not interesting at all.
> > >>>> And attractive? Hardly.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> chris
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Jun 24, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Vikki Riley wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Chris
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Stephen Kent is from San Fran. He's not aboriginal.
> > >>>>> No credibility whatsover so Kathy's tastes are quite KMartish .
> > >>>>> Yidaki players are taught by elders at the age of 5 usually. Very
> few
> > >>>>> white
> > >>>>> people are priveleged to be brought up by traditional aboriginal
> > >>>>> musicians.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Vikki
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Christopher Gray <
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> rasputin-AT-teleport.com
> > >>>
> > >>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What?!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Quite the imagination.
> > >>>>>> Pass a name around the circle and when it comes back you don't
> even
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> know
> > >>>
> > >>>> the person that everyone else has re-created. It's an interesting
> > >>>>>> game....
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> She likes music from all over the world, especially, I've noticed,
> > >>>>>> Scottish-Indian fusion (Enya), heavy surf (Dick Dale, Gary Hoey),
> > >>>>>> classical
> > >>>>>> Indian instrumental, psychedelic surf (The Mermen, Polo del Mar) ,
> > >>>>>> electronica (Tangerine Dream), "spaghetti" western music
> (including
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> Wall
> > >>>
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> Voodoo), Asian fusion, violin rock-fusion (Jean-Luc Ponty, Jerry
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> Goodman,
> > >>>
> > >>>> Steve Kindler, Scarlet Rivera), Aboriginal (Stephen Kent, Steve
> Roch),
> > >>>>>> "acid" trance, Celtic (Enya), Indian (Rasa, Shankar),
> Andes-American
> > >>>>>> (Cusco), etc. Most of it wouldn't work in a strip bar. She does
> have
> > >>>>>> some
> > >>>>>> "Grind" music and "lounge" sound. So, she is appreciative of many
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> musical
> > >>>
> > >>>> roots, as am I; her son was a keyboard composer and her daughter
> plays
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>> teaches jazz bass in Oakland-Berkeley.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> She can dance all over the place while I occasionally join in.
> Music
> > >>>>>> is
> > >>>>>> dead here: no clubs but for headbash-metal or polyester-disco
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> hangovers.
> > >>>
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>>> have yet to get anyone but Kathy to see The Tubes or Stan Ridgway
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> (first
> > >>>
> > >>>> lead singer for Wall of Voodoo); she'll go, but others in the area
> are
> > >>>>>> lost
> > >>>>>> in the drone of [c]rap and p[l]op or commercial jingles.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Since she quit the list long ago, and is not wishing for abstract
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> attacks
> > >>>
> > >>>> on her to be passive-aggressively used against me, she asked that
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> anyone
> > >>>
> > >>>> finding her "Black Box" Self-introduction (listed below)
> interesting,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> please feel free to contact her directly via her email at <
> > >>>>>> kathykundalini-AT-committee-for-transcendence.org>:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> =========================> > >>>>>> My name is Kathy. I am here to (hopefully, perhaps, maybe) engage
> with
> > >>>>>> others in the creation of a path and practice aimed towards a
> > >>>>>> personal/collective transformation and liberation. For me, such a
> path
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> is
> > >>>
> > >>>> a
> > >>>>>> deeply personal project, as well as, a social/historical and
> global
> > >>>>>> project.
> > >>>>>> I do not have a party-line or recipe to apply. Rather, I wish to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> develop
> > >>>
> > >>>> thoughtful, playful, "subversive," open-ended, and experimental
> > >>>>>> activities
> > >>>>>> of "political" engagement. But, perhaps more importantly, I also
> wish
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> create an ongoing, exploratory practice of transformation of our
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> current
> > >>>
> > >>>> forms of consciousness, of our personal sense of who, and what, we
> > >>>>>> are.
> > >>>>>> For
> > >>>>>> me, practice is not only about what we "do to others" -- but also
> what
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> we
> > >>>
> > >>>> do
> > >>>>>> to ourselves. I feel my personal path of awakening and radical
> > >>>>>> transformation is really just beginning, not an accomplished fact
> at
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> all.
> > >>>
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>>> am not talking only about knowledge-acquisition or learning more
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> theory,
> > >>>
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>>> I am not excluding these either. I am referring to the
> experiential
> > >>>>>> quality
> > >>>>>> of our lives, of our self-understanding of "who we are," and what
> this
> > >>>>>> life-world might be, as in, this planet, this universe, these
> living
> > >>>>>> organisms that we are, these conscious experiences that we seem to
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> have.
> > >>>
> > >>>> Who
> > >>>>>> am I? Who are you? What do I see when I look into your eyes? How
> do I
> > >>>>>> have
> > >>>>>> these experiences? How is it I find myself here and now -- with
> you?
> > >>>>>> It
> > >>>>>> is
> > >>>>>> about awakening and more awakening, and finding ways to express
> our
> > >>>>>> awakening, and also of becoming more compassionate, mindful,
> > >>>>>> conscious,
> > >>>>>> present-to-our-lives. I guess I am talking about some kind of
> > >>>>>> "enlightenment," a shared enlightenment, a collective
> transcendence.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> All
> > >>>
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> us, together.
> > >>>>>> I have a general critique of world capitalism, and, for all of my
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> adult
> > >>>
> > >>>> life, I have been either actively attempting to promote a world
> > >>>>>> revolution,
> > >>>>>> or silently awaiting such a global movement to appear. But my
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> attraction
> > >>>
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>>> such ideas and practices has not come from a sense of
> other-oriented
> > >>>>>> duty,
> > >>>>>> but rather because these modes of thinking and acting were
> inherently
> > >>>>>> interesting, engaging, seductive, challenging. Radical
> consciousness
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> has
> > >>>
> > >>>> its
> > >>>>>> own rewards, as it speaks to who we are and who we want to be. My
> > >>>>>> interests
> > >>>>>> range beyond what is "traditionally" seen as "political" or
> "Marxist."
> > >>>>>> Yes,
> > >>>>>> I am drawn toward understanding history, radical social movements,
> > >>>>>> general
> > >>>>>> critiques of capitalist society, alienated labor, the commodity
> form,
> > >>>>>> class
> > >>>>>> societies, etc. But I am also very much interested in other
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> philosophies
> > >>>
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>>> viewpoints, like those of existentialism, phenomenology,
> "primitive"
> > >>>>>> societies, "New Age" thinking, etc., and I am also very involved
> in
> > >>>>>> "Eastern" thought, such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Vedanta, Yoga,
> Tantra,
> > >>>>>> etc. I
> > >>>>>> have found, in particular, that these "Eastern" approaches have
> potent
> > >>>>>> techniques that can assist one who sees herself on a
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> self-transformative
> > >>>
> > >>>> path -- techniques such as meditation, yoga, ecstatic dance,
> chanting,
> > >>>>>> breathing, compassion-in-action, existential questioning,
> integration
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>
> > >>>> body/mind, consciousness transformation, etc. But, as I said, I also
> > >>>>>> remain
> > >>>>>> "political." I have yet to integrate all these various strands of
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> thought
> > >>>
> > >>>> and practice, stretching from Marxist critique to Buddhist breathing
> > >>>>>> meditation, etc., into a "coherent" viewpoint, except as they all
> > >>>>>> intersect
> > >>>>>> in me. But whatever trend of thought I find myself exploring, I
> try to
> > >>>>>> allow
> > >>>>>> the ideas to sink into me, and to alter me in some way -- as in,
> to
> > >>>>>> change
> > >>>>>> my experience and my orientation toward life. Practice is the key
> --
> > >>>>>> though
> > >>>>>> personally I cannot put myself on any kind of pedestal in that
> regard,
> > >>>>>> politically or spiritually.
> > >>>>>> So my endeavor is not to substitute the purely personal for the
> > >>>>>> political
> > >>>>>> -- but rather, to develop a practice that aims for the mutually
> > >>>>>> integrative
> > >>>>>> transcendence of both. Yes, I want to participate in a global
> movement
> > >>>>>> that
> > >>>>>> might take us all beyond the constrictions of our current daily
> lives,
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>> beyond the ever-threatening crisis of world capitalism. But I am
> also
> > >>>>>> a
> > >>>>>> human consciousness, living all the mystery that this involves. I
> am
> > >>>>>> aware
> > >>>>>> of my own existence, though I do not understand it, and cannot
> explain
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> it
> > >>>
> > >>>> at
> > >>>>>> all. But this is my life, I am living it now. I want to awaken
> more
> > >>>>>> and
> > >>>>>> more
> > >>>>>> to what this might "mean," and to awaken to what my possibilities
> are,
> > >>>>>> right
> > >>>>>> now, in this moment. So I am not only a historical being, but also
> an
> > >>>>>> existential/spiritual being, searching for transcendence. It is a
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> matter
> > >>>
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>> simultaneously locating myself, with others, on this
> social-historical
> > >>>>>> dimension, while also creating the forms of self-reflective
> expression
> > >>>>>> for
> > >>>>>> what we feel "inside" -- to explore, embody, and express certain
> > >>>>>> potentials
> > >>>>>> -- and also to create the path to the "other side of this life" --
> the
> > >>>>>> path
> > >>>>>> toward that which calls from just beyond the horizon of
> consciousness,
> > >>>>>> beyond these constricting social forms, beyond what we have been
> told
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> it
> > >>>
> > >>>> means to be a person in this society.
> > >>>>>> So then, the question becomes, how does my path intersect with
> others?
> > >>>>>> With yours? What can we do individually and collectively to
> > >>>>>> self-understand,
> > >>>>>> self-create, self-transform? How do we mutually provoke, enliven,
> and
> > >>>>>> express our need for transcendence? How to do this amidst this
> > >>>>>> overwhelming
> > >>>>>> and omnipresent capitalist society? How to engage in
> > >>>>>> social/personal/transformative practice -- effectively?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> So this is a little of me. And so, now, who are you? Who would you
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>> like
> > >>>
> > >>>> to be? What would you like to do? What can we do together? What game
> > >>>>>> do
> > >>>>>> you
> > >>>>>> want to play today?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Namaste (I bow to you)
> > >>>>>> Kathy
> > >>>>>> =========================> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> best wishes,
> > >>>>>> chris
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jun 23, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Vikki Riley wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Hey Laurie
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Well I've been to San Fran and smelt the err petrol fumes err I
> mean
> > >>>>>>> organic
> > >>>>>>> garden aromas competing with latino noise and coke
> addicts.....Wish
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I'd
> > >>>
> > >>>> met
> > >>>>>>> Kathy Kundalini I guess if she was in the Mission she'd be a
> stripper
> > >>>>>>> gyrating to alt rock no doubt..
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Laurie Colson <
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> lauriecolson-AT-yahoo.com
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> I don't think Buddha is New Age, it's No Age, but I was saying
> that I
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>> known many New Agers that embrace Buddhist principles; while
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> belittling
> > >>>
> > >>>> Christian ones. If I had a Phd. from Berkley--well I know it's
> > >>>>>>>> different
> > >>>>>>>> out
> > >>>>>>>> there but I would put my real name in front of it. I inferred a
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> NewAge
> > >>>
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>>>>> Orgone reference in the psuedonym, Kundalini. I could not help
> but
> > >>>>>>>> do
> > >>>>>>>> so.
> > >>>>>>>> You live in San Fran, and have a garden, fruit and nut orchard?
> > >>>>>>>> You receive Social Security, but are waiting till it is cut off
> to
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> exit
> > >>>
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>>>> dependency matrix? Callling me procapitalist? I don't have
> capital
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> like
> > >>>
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>>>>> don't have equity or own anything over a couple hundred bucks,
> for
> > >>>>>>>> real.
> > >>>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>> receive social security also, and as told you my daughter who
> lives
> > >>>>>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>> me
> > >>>>>>>> is taxpaying U.S.M.C. (I know, women usually have more empathy
> > >>>>>>>> regarding
> > >>>>>>>> humans. She's only twenty. Empathy as exhibited in passage from
> you
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> another human ""The One" is such an asshole liar, always seeking the
> > >>>>>>>> attention that people defending themselves or views brings back
> to
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> IT,
> > >>>
> > >>>> the
> > >>>>>>>> liar.
> > >>>>>>>> IT ought to try inserting ITS manhood up ITS own ass; it's as
> close
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> to
> > >>>
> > >>>> love
> > >>>>>>>> as IT'll probably get, although I'm certain limp rape. But then,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> IT'll
> > >>>
> > >>>> never
> > >>>>>>>> call ITself the next day, and the world of IT-top and IT-bottom,
> > >>>>>>>> eternally
> > >>>>>>>> dualistic, will be all who "care", if IT possesses even that
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> quality."
> > >>>
> > >>>> I am "insensitive/ignorant visionless capitalist fascist." I am not
> > >>>>>>>> guilty of ad-hominum attacks, at least. What's wrong with Star
> Wars?
> > >>>>>>>> George
> > >>>>>>>> Lucas is a visionary. So there. Are you saying lastly that
> taking a
> > >>>>>>>> shit
> > >>>>>>>> is
> > >>>>>>>> a procapitalistfascist movement? A good bowel movement is a sign
> of
> > >>>>>>>> robust
> > >>>>>>>> health.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>>>> From: Christopher Gray <rasputin-AT-teleport.com>
> > >>>>>>>> To: Situationist <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
> > >>>>>>>> Cc: Christopher Gray <rasputin-AT-teleport.com>
> > >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 2:00:06 AM
> > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kundalini,Orgone,Chi,Christ,Tesla
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> sadly, the Visionless One cannot comprehend that some people use
> > >>>>>>>> pseudonyms
> > >>>>>>>> and aliases. In fact, ALL email uses aliasing to even work at
> all.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Some
> > >>>
> > >>>> people use anonymous servers. Others like to keep some privacy so
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> they
> > >>>
> > >>>> get
> > >>>>>>>> Yahoo, MSN/Hotmail, or Google/gmail email addresses. It's a
> security
> > >>>>>>>> measure
> > >>>>>>>> as well. But then, when you cannot see a need for security 1
> inch in
> > >>>>>>>> front
> > >>>>>>>> of your nose, well... perhaps the sense as well as the fun both
> get
> > >>>>>>>> missed.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Kathy went on to get a library sciences masters degree and used
> it
> > >>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>> get
> > >>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>> job at the SF Chronicle for nearly 24 years before the another
> SFC
> > >>>>>>>> demise-pending layoff of recent. Since we combine for less than
> 1/2
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> of
> > >>>
> > >>>> what
> > >>>>>>>> either of use used to get, we are spending much time gardening
> food
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> so
> > >>>
> > >>>> we
> > >>>>>>>> can save money and store food, carrying bath/shower water to the
> > >>>>>>>> rain
> > >>>>>>>> barrel
> > >>>>>>>> or directly to the garden fruits/nut trees, etc.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> When her unemployment runs out or when my Social Security is cut
> > >>>>>>>> off,
> > >>>>>>>> we
> > >>>>>>>> will lose the house and be on the street. For now, we are trying
> as
> > >>>>>>>> cheaply
> > >>>>>>>> as we can to get off the matrix of dependency so that we have no
> > >>>>>>>> food
> > >>>>>>>> or
> > >>>>>>>> utility bills, only a mortgage (bank as the landlord) payment.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Buddhism is not New Age. That kind of snide disregard for how a
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> greter
> > >>>
> > >>>> portion of the world sees reality is expected and typically
> > >>>>>>>> insensitive/ignorant.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I appreciate your undeterred interest. Women usually have more
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> empathy
> > >>>
> > >>>> regarding humans. Cranking out idiots high on Doom, Star Wars,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Extreme
> > >>>
> > >>>> Cage
> > >>>>>>>> Fighting, and aggressive cynicism is why there is no movement
> today
> > >>>>>>>> worth
> > >>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>> shit, except for that movement itself, which is proto-fascist
> and
> > >>>>>>>> pro-capitalist.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Send Kathy an email. She'd enjoy your views and comments....
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> best,
> > >>>>>>>> chris
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Jun 22, 2009, at 10:11 PM, Laurie Colson wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Baltimore? have you ever seen Pink Flamingos by John Waters?
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> According
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Chris Grey Kathy Kundalini is from Berkley, Ca, were she
> attended
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> university
> > >>>>>>>> in philosophy. I don't see how it is likely design students and
> New
> > >>>>>>>> Agers
> > >>>>>>>> and Sarte deconstructors engage with History and Class
> > >>>>>>>> Conciousness,
> > >>>>>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>> she and others supposedly do in S.I. It's a big tent.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ________________________________
> > >>>>>>>>> From: Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>> To: Situationist <situationist-AT-lists.nothingness.org>
> > >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 12:54:55 AM
> > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Kundalini,Orgone,Chi,Christ,Tesla
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Yeah right my real name is Victoria Viagra
> > >>>>>>>>> What a load of New Age trash! Kathy Kundalini is probably some
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> tranvestite
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> from where? Baltimore no doubt
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Laurie Colson <
> > >>>>>>>>> lauriecolson-AT-yahoo.com
> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> "Kathy's work includes several pieces that may be of use to you
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> w/r/t
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> her ability to synthesize Buddhism, Native American beliefs,
> > >>>>>>>>>> phenomenology, Hegelian dialectics, and Situationist theory:"
> > >>>>>>>>>> ...slowly i turned....
> > >>>>>>>>>> Her name is seriously Kathy Kundalini? Man, I feel stupid for
> not
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> putting
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> all this together sooner, Orgone IS Kundalini, Chi, Prana,
> Christ. I
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> just
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> haven't been thinking I guess. Reich split from Freud was
> because he
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> claimed
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> libido was an actual measurable force, Orgone, which could be
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> accumulated...
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> searching the internet, accumulators come in all variety, and
> price
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> range
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> addressing societal environment cancer illls. The romantic in me
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> thinks
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> mythology of Reich is cool, but his is a mystic and philosopher,
> not
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> an
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> engineer or phycist. His accumulator is a low powered Tesla
> coil,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>
> members.dslextreme.com/users/rogermw/Reich/orgone_field_meter.html
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>> He thought orgone was being messed with from flying saucers.
> Tesla
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> was
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> an
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> eccentric also. But an electrical engineer and physcst.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Aside from his work on electromagnetism and electromechanical
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> engineering,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Tesla has contributed in varying degrees to the establishment of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> robotics,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> remote control, radar and computer science, and to the expansion
> of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ballistics, nuclear physics,[8] and theoretical physics. In
> 1943,
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>
> > >>>> Supreme Court of the United States credited him as being the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> inventor
> > >>>
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> radio.[9]
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Many of his achievements have been used, with some
> controversy, to
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> support various pseudosciences, UFO theories, and early New
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Ageoccultism. <
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Why do New Agers shun and deny the Christ form of this light
> energy,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> not buddha? Or laying on of hands? how differ from Reichi etc..
> I've
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> always
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> said I didn't believe in anything supernatural but I have no way
> of
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> knowing.
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> But when speaking of Reich, well, people should be more careful,
> at
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> least
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> stating the nature of his work. Maybe I should get Ms.
> Khundalini's
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> work
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> on
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Dialectic No More; or a cerebral torque wrench. I mean this
> stuff,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> seriously. Maybe I'll go read some Allan Ginsburg, or listen to
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Tesla
> > >>>
> > >>>> records. Just cause I love Kate Bush's Cloudbusting doesn't mean I
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> should
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> have posted it in defense of Reich.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of
> a
> > >>>>>>>>>> message
> > >>>>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of
> a
> > >>>>>>>>> message
> > >>>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of
> a
> > >>>>>>>>> message
> > >>>>>>>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a
> > >>>>>>>> messageto
> > >>>>>>>> requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ----
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> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a
> > >>>>>>>
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> > >>>
> > >>>> to requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> ----
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a
> > >>>>>> messageto
> > >>>>>> requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>>>
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> > >>>>>> ----
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> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> ----
> > >>>> Message sent by the Situationist list.
> > >>>> To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe situationist" in the body of a
> > >>>>
> > >>> messageto
> > >>>
> > >>>> requests-AT-lists.nothingness.org
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> ----
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>
> _________________________________________________________________
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Thread
Re: authentic music/appropriation/ integration for Christsake / richard haden <richard_haden-AT-yahoo.com> / 30 Jun 2009
RE: authentic music/appropriation/ integration for Christsake / Diana Manister <dmanister-AT-hotmail.com> / 30 Jun 2009
Re: authentic music/appropriation/ integration for Christsake / Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com> / 01 Jul 2009
RE: authentic music/appropriation/ integration for Christsake / Diana Manister <dmanister-AT-hotmail.com> / 01 Jul 2009
Re: authentic music/appropriation/ integration for Christsake / Vikki Riley <riley.vikki-AT-gmail.com> / 02 Jul 2009
RE: authentic music/appropriation/ integration for Christsake / Diana Manister <dmanister-AT-hotmail.com> / 02 Jul 2009
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