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[liste ra-l] (en) "lutte de tous contre tous"
From: Al Moritz <albert.moritz-at-utoronto.ca>
The phrase comes from Thomas Hobbes's De Cive, a Latin treatise
published 1642, and a forerunner of The Leviathan (1651). In De Cive,
Hobbes has "bellum omnium contra omnes", the war of all against all. In
The Leviathan, he translates this as a "war" of "every man against every man". How it got changed into "the war of all against all", I don't
know, but that's the proverbial form it took. So it originates in
Hobbes's Latin, but as an "old saw", it originates in English. The
French "lutte", "struggle", is a somewhat free translation given that
French of course has a word for "war", and it sounds to me as if "lutte" is used to assimilate the quotation to the later (nineteenth-century)
notion of class "struggle".
Al Moritz
-----Original Message-----
From: Recherches sur l'anarchisme
Sent: February-11-10 1:41 PM
To: RA-LFR
Subject: [liste ra-l] "lutte de tous contre tous"
De Ronald Creagh : ronald.creagh-at-univ-montp3.fr
Bonjour,
Je cherche l'origine de l'expression "la lutte de tous contre tous". Est-ce qu'elle date de l'apparition du "darwinisme social" - "struggle
for life" (lutte pour la vie), ou bien y a-t-il des sources plus anciennes?
Merci
Ronald Creagh
---------------------------------------------
The Research on Anarchism List (RA-L) is an international forum
which was started on January 1, 1996, and is devoted to book reviews,
research and discussion of the theories, histories and cultures of
world anarchist movements and to other topics related to anarchism.
---------------------------------------------
Our site: raforum.info/
MODERATORS/MODERADORS/MODERATEURS:
L. Susan Brown
John P. Clark
Ronald Creagh
Maryvonne Equy-Nicola
Annick Stevens
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The phrase comes from Thomas Hobbes's De Cive, a Latin treatise
published 1642, and a forerunner of The Leviathan (1651). In De Cive,
Hobbes has "bellum omnium contra omnes", the war of all against all. In
The Leviathan, he translates this as a "war" of "every man against every man". How it got changed into "the war of all against all", I don't
know, but that's the proverbial form it took. So it originates in
Hobbes's Latin, but as an "old saw", it originates in English. The
French "lutte", "struggle", is a somewhat free translation given that
French of course has a word for "war", and it sounds to me as if "lutte" is used to assimilate the quotation to the later (nineteenth-century)
notion of class "struggle".
Al Moritz
-----Original Message-----
From: Recherches sur l'anarchisme
Sent: February-11-10 1:41 PM
To: RA-LFR
Subject: [liste ra-l] "lutte de tous contre tous"
De Ronald Creagh : ronald.creagh-at-univ-montp3.fr
Bonjour,
Je cherche l'origine de l'expression "la lutte de tous contre tous". Est-ce qu'elle date de l'apparition du "darwinisme social" - "struggle
for life" (lutte pour la vie), ou bien y a-t-il des sources plus anciennes?
Merci
Ronald Creagh
---------------------------------------------
The Research on Anarchism List (RA-L) is an international forum
which was started on January 1, 1996, and is devoted to book reviews,
research and discussion of the theories, histories and cultures of
world anarchist movements and to other topics related to anarchism.
---------------------------------------------
Our site: raforum.info/
MODERATORS/MODERADORS/MODERATEURS:
L. Susan Brown
John P. Clark
Ronald Creagh
Maryvonne Equy-Nicola
Annick Stevens
---------------------------------------------
TO SEND A MESSAGE TO EVERYONE write to ra-len-AT-univ-montp3.fr
TO UNSUBSCRIBE, WRITE TO: sympa-AT-univ-montp3.fr
with the text: SIGnoff RA-L (no subject nor signature).
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