From: ra-AT-alor.univ-montp3.fr (Ronald Creagh, Moderator, Research on Anarchism List)
Date: 27 Jan 1997 12:04:32 UTC   (08:04:32 AM in author's locale)
To: RA-L-AT-bred.univ-montp3.fr

Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:36:04 -0800
>From: "Brent Peterson" <crash-AT-cyberspace.com>
Subject: Re: (E) Diet choices and political consciousness
At 10:17 PM 1/26/97 0100, you wrote:
>Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:11:53 0100 (MET)
>>From: Harald Beyer-Arnesen <haraldba-AT-sn.no>
>
>Christelle and others,
>
>Though you can point to anarchists through history who have been
>vegetarian, I have hard to see any more intrinsic connection between
>the two than between say nazism and vegetarianism. But If you plan to
>chose to use your time on "research on diet choices and political
>consciousness," you should be as honest as to include the attraction
>vegetarianism and "animal rights" have had on nazis in the past and
>present.
>
>I have no trouble feeling disgust for much of today's
>industrialized meat production, but ...
>
>The popularity in some circles, especially in the US, of notions
>like "animal rights" and "speciesism" seem to derive from an
>urban way of life. Often it also reflects the social background
>of people; the alienation of "middle class" life.
>
>What these notions seem to imply is not just another society, but
>another planet. Whether you like it or not the different species on
>this earth feed on each other, one species life is another species
>food. To bring a little honesty into this debate I think you should
>start out with rats, the "rights" of rats to live where they want.
>In fact human beings is the only species on this earth that given the
>opportunity would NOT exterminate all other species, or ever consider
>that other species have "rights". Should other animals be
>given the "right" to vote also, or should they be discriminated on in
>this field? Should they have duties, like not to kill? Should
>rattle snakes be forced to become vegetarians? Some say plants suffer
>when they are uprooted? If this was proven beyond doubt, should
>we stop eating?
>
> Harald
>
> in solidarity,
> Harald Beyer-Arnesen
> haraldba-AT-sn.no
>
how can you say that anarchism (the belief in no government, coercive
institutions, oppression, etc...) and animal rights (the belief that we
shouldn't kill, oppress, torture, rape anything) are not connected?
the next time somebody tell you that hitler was a vegetarian, first of all,
tell them that his vegetarianism is widely disputed and second of all why to
you set hitler up in a equality of rightousness with einstien, gahndi,
etc... saying "why don't you check out the connections between animal
rights and nazism" is like saying "why don't you investigate the connections
between anarchism and bomb-throwing?". also, the nazis who were
vegetarian did not do it out of any kind of concern for life. it was for a
kind of psuedo-religious "purity". purely physical.
the redudant argument that if "plants have feelings should we stop eating":
if i have to choose between an inanimate object without a visible centrel
nervous system and something that has to be imprisoned and tortured and then
eventually murdered in a very sadistic fashion, i will choose the earlier.
vegetarianism is middle class?
all of my homeless squater friends ( i would say that is lower-class,
wouldn't you? ) are vegetarians/vegans because it is a helluva lot cheaper.
it's not some revolt by middle class kids or something. it's a concern for
life. i desire to live without fucking others over.
so whatever...

tyler
=================================================
"All institutions, all social organizations,
impose a pattern on people and detract from there
individuality; above all, it seams to me, they
detract from their humanity."
-John Vaizey, Scenes from Institutional Life.

-=http://www.cyberspace.com/~crash=-
=================================================

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Moderator/Moderador/Moderateur : Ronald Creagh
Co-Moderator : John P. Clark
e-mail : rcreagh-AT-alor.univ-montp3.fr
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